Minor Threat

ThrashZone666 пишет:

Im out of step with the world!

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Woaaaaah пишет:

The best guys

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VK1990 пишет:

Bottled Violence

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jackanory пишет:

Although I think the circumstances where this discussion would take place are important- as like I said people are liable to jump on pretty much everything he says, for various reasons- some motivated by their own views as much as the rights and wrongs of what he actually said or did.

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jackanory пишет:

I interviewed him a while back for a 'zine I did, and a similar sort of thing came up with straight edge and how he is questioned on that on a regular basis- and the fact is something he said ended up being completely taken on by a lot of people and it was entirely beyond his control- yet he was still apparently accountable for something he didn't intend to create. As I said, with that kind of thing being an everyday occurance it's inevitable that he might as a result be defensive about some things. His lyrics and things I've seen him say subsequently lead me to believe he's a different person to his teenage self (as most people would be) and generally I've used him as an example- mainly through how Fugazi and Dischord operate for how DIY culture is brilliant. I think if you realised your views were under such a huge microscope it'd limit your willingness to make broad statements, but I agree he would be well advised to maybe say something about this particular subject.

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ifeelok пишет:

On a final note, I believe I read something about mackaye talking about how he never really thought about how his lyrics would be interpretted by anyone out of his circle of friends (wish I could find a source that isn't wikipedia) so in that sense I can understand a defensive reaction. I'm not trying to make some claim like "kids can't be forgiven for things they said a long time ago" because I'm aware that people grow and opinions change, but since I've yet to see any sort of reponse to the contrary of his opinions expressed in that interview I personally don't see any good in speculating how he feels one way or the other. If he does indeed understand the absurdity/offensiveness of what he said now, then there's even less of an excuse for lack of some sort of apology.

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ifeelok пишет:

I guess what I'm just trying to say is that I don't think he's inherently a fucked person because he said a few things that were fucked, and to be fair, I'm only talking about a small handful of specific instances. If he has indeed learned anything since then, I'm thrilled, but I'm not going to overlook it just because I like this band, you know? Atleast this ended up generating some real conversation and not just trolls, a rare occurance on a last.fm shoutbox.

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ifeelok пишет:

I completely agree. My only goal was in making some people aware of it, even though I know the vast majority of people won't give a fuck and will simply retort with things like "but i like minor threat so it's ok i don't care how dare you shit talk ian blah blah blah." It's just important to be able to seperate the musicians from the music when necessary, especially because I'm sure there are people reading about it now who, like me, got into this band before realising certain things. The years of accumulating knowledge like this made me a little bitter to realise that obviously not everything is perfect and it's frightening or weird to find out when it's about someone you might have looked up to. There is definitely a lot of good that happened with minor threat and that shouldn't be overlooked, but I don't think that necessarily excuses any mistakes and it's still good to talk about.

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jackanory пишет:

It doesn't mean you should ignore mistakes you may have made... but I can see why he might tend to go on the defensive with certain things when he's constantly called out for things he did years previously. Doesn't make it ok and if he stands behind that interview from the 80's then I think he's probably an idiot, but what he's done since suggests he's become more educated and aware of such things, and that minute and a half is not enough for me to assume he still stands behind everything else he said.

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jackanory пишет:

Middle class,male, white teenager in sometimes 'ignorant' to their privilege shocker... it's not just limited to Minor Threat and is probably applicable to pretty much the entire 1980's hardcore scene and beyond. There's no excuse for what he might have said back then- beyond ignorance, but that doesn't mean you have to ignore the virtues that also came with it, even if they were misguided or inevitably imperfect. Part of what I like about punk is that kids who had no real guidelines made their own dynamic movement... but it's therefore likely that huge mistakes and inconsistencies would be present. I think you can put the defensiveness down to the fact that he's questioned on a regular basis about statements he may have made as a kid without either realising their full impact or the fact they'd still be considered worth discussing 30 years later.

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ifeelok пишет:

i personally don't find a problem with his lyrics, i understand he had good intentions to write an anti-prejudice song. my problems lies with the fact that in every instance where someone tries to call him out on it he gets really defensive and refuses to acknowledge how he's said some pretty uncool things ABOUT the song, rather than in its lyrics, which is where he always falls back to talk about. but talking about the hypocrasy of ian mackaye is almost pointless because he drinks and gets just as defensive about that, too.

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ifeelok пишет:

from wikipedia: "Minor Threat's song "Guilty of Being White" led to some accusations of racism, but MacKaye has strongly denied such intentions and said that some listeners misinterpreted his words." but it has little to do with his lyrics in and of themselves: (http://dreadhawkedmuckaround.tumblr.com/post/15227331456/captainbubblebeard-unaguerrasinfondo-ian) whether or not you believe in the ability to "reclaim" words, ian mackaye has no say over how words like bitch or nigger are used and putting them on par with a word like jock is ludicrous. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6AEwkM7u10) since the interview is not dated, this video is from 2009 so its fairly safe to say that his feelings haven't budged much since then. racism is institutionalised acts of racial prejudice and violence BY WHITES. just because he's saying it's an "anti-racist" song and felt like the "minority" at an all black school doesn't mean it's true, but that interview shows it's not just a matter of semantics.

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CambodianEaster пишет:

PARRRTY PARTY PARTY LETS ALL GET WASTED

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CambodianEaster пишет:

@ifeelok Since when was Ian Mackaye a sexist or racist? "Guilty of Being White" is a tongue-in-cheek song bro, duh. The man is such a tolreant fellow. And though I'm not straight edge and don't really agree with some parts, it's good that some people wnat to refrain from drugs and alcohol. Yes, there are a lot of arrogant andjudgemental assholes who are straight edge (from what I've been told), but Ian didn't intend for straight edge to be about judging folks or thinking someone is better than another; it was just about him wanting to be a healthy person.

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Burymeinsmoke22 пишет:

Lol yeah. Fav hardcore punk band ive checked out along with black flag. A lot of other killer bands from the scene too.

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Mc_Regis пишет:

look at this guy, he thinks Guilty of Being White is a racist song, how cute.

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ifeelok пишет:

ian mackaye himself has a pretty bad case of the unchecked white male privilege bug. i refuse to feed the trolls but it's pretty easily googleable if you are actually interested and care to learn more.

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xCARLOSx146120 пишет:

These guys were never "broey" tough guy straight edge. What chu talking about?

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